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	<title>Comments on: John 21, Peter, &amp; the Pope</title>
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	<link>http://www.biblestudy.net/2005/05/16/john-21-peter-the-pope/</link>
	<description>Solid Bible Takes</description>
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		<title>By: Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://www.biblestudy.net/2005/05/16/john-21-peter-the-pope/comment-page-1/#comment-5057</link>
		<dc:creator>Maxwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There may not be biblical proof that Peter was in Rome, but there is indeed &lt;i&gt;historical&lt;/i&gt; proof that he was.

Ponder this selection from Irenaeus&#039; Adversus haereses (Against heresies). Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp who was a student of the Apostle John:

&lt;em&gt;Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating &lt;b&gt;that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul&lt;/b&gt;; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.&lt;/em&gt;

So not only is Irenaeus telling us that Peter founded the Church of Rome, but that every Church should be in harmony with the Church of Rome due to it&#039;s [sic] preeminent authority.
==========================
&lt;span style=&quot;color:Green;&quot;&gt;John&#039;s comment:

Here is an excellent example of why God breathed-out the Scriptures instead of leaving us at the mercies of the &quot;historical proof&quot; of men in their thoughts and writings.

Of course, Romanism designs to make every man dependent on them for the undertsanding of God&#039;s Mind, having taken up Nimrod&#039;s agenda at Babel.

So, they easily disregard the Scriptures, which have plenty to say about church governance, and which have NOTHING to say about one local church being told what to do by a &quot;higher&quot; or dominating church, and instead turn to some guy named &quot;Iranaeus,&quot; who is unnamed in Scripture, and about which we know almost nothing.

He is allegedly a &lt;em&gt;student&lt;/em&gt; of another guy - &quot;Polycarp&quot; - who is also unknown in the Scripture, and too young to have been the disciple of John the Apostle, unless the latter lived to be 200. But Iranaeus wasn&#039;t a very good student, apparently, because Polycarp readily ignored the bishops of Rome whereas Iranaeus demonstrates a cult-like following.

This reminds me of my archeological visit to the Mediterranean, where I visted, among other places, the island of Patmos. We were taken by our guide to &quot;the cave of St. John&quot; (for a fee), and I was asked to address a large group visiting there concerning the Biblical passages relating to John&#039;s &quot;imprisonment&quot; on the island. I pointed out the Scriptures said nothing about John being imprisoned on the island, or jailed in a cave, and that frankly I doubted very seriously if we were standing somewhere where he once did, considering the odds.

It&#039;s a nicely appointed cave these days, so we sang a hymn because the accoustics were interesting. There was a strange guy, said to be a Catholic monk, standing in the corner. I tried to talk to him for awhile, but it appeared that while lights were on, no one was home.

Back to Iranaeus. This is the same guy who gives an account of Peter and Simon Magus in Rome, the latter demonstrating the ability to fly while Peter and Paul allegedly knelt in prayer on a paved surface, miraculously impressing that surface with knee-formed dimples which later ended up - surprisingly - in a Catholic church building where people would visit to see them. 

Of course, Simon Magus then crashed to the ground, injuring himself.

Remarkable stuff, this historical proof.

There&#039;s a reason the Lord Jesus said &quot;call no man on earth father,&quot; and that includes &quot;church fathers.&quot; We know from the Bible that the {mystery of inquity was already working&#124;2Th 2:7} during the time of the apostle Paul&#039;s ministry. No surprise Iraneous was infected with wrong ecclesiology.

I&#039;ll take the Scriptures.&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There may not be biblical proof that Peter was in Rome, but there is indeed <i>historical</i> proof that he was.</p>
<p>Ponder this selection from Irenaeus&#8217; Adversus haereses (Against heresies). Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp who was a student of the Apostle John:</p>
<p><em>Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating <b>that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul</b>; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.</em></p>
<p>So not only is Irenaeus telling us that Peter founded the Church of Rome, but that every Church should be in harmony with the Church of Rome due to it&#8217;s [sic] preeminent authority.<br />
==========================<br />
<span style="color:Green;">John&#8217;s comment:</p>
<p>Here is an excellent example of why God breathed-out the Scriptures instead of leaving us at the mercies of the &#8220;historical proof&#8221; of men in their thoughts and writings.</p>
<p>Of course, Romanism designs to make every man dependent on them for the undertsanding of God&#8217;s Mind, having taken up Nimrod&#8217;s agenda at Babel.</p>
<p>So, they easily disregard the Scriptures, which have plenty to say about church governance, and which have NOTHING to say about one local church being told what to do by a &#8220;higher&#8221; or dominating church, and instead turn to some guy named &#8220;Iranaeus,&#8221; who is unnamed in Scripture, and about which we know almost nothing.</p>
<p>He is allegedly a <em>student</em> of another guy &#8211; &#8220;Polycarp&#8221; &#8211; who is also unknown in the Scripture, and too young to have been the disciple of John the Apostle, unless the latter lived to be 200. But Iranaeus wasn&#8217;t a very good student, apparently, because Polycarp readily ignored the bishops of Rome whereas Iranaeus demonstrates a cult-like following.</p>
<p>This reminds me of my archeological visit to the Mediterranean, where I visted, among other places, the island of Patmos. We were taken by our guide to &#8220;the cave of St. John&#8221; (for a fee), and I was asked to address a large group visiting there concerning the Biblical passages relating to John&#8217;s &#8220;imprisonment&#8221; on the island. I pointed out the Scriptures said nothing about John being imprisoned on the island, or jailed in a cave, and that frankly I doubted very seriously if we were standing somewhere where he once did, considering the odds.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a nicely appointed cave these days, so we sang a hymn because the accoustics were interesting. There was a strange guy, said to be a Catholic monk, standing in the corner. I tried to talk to him for awhile, but it appeared that while lights were on, no one was home.</p>
<p>Back to Iranaeus. This is the same guy who gives an account of Peter and Simon Magus in Rome, the latter demonstrating the ability to fly while Peter and Paul allegedly knelt in prayer on a paved surface, miraculously impressing that surface with knee-formed dimples which later ended up &#8211; surprisingly &#8211; in a Catholic church building where people would visit to see them. </p>
<p>Of course, Simon Magus then crashed to the ground, injuring himself.</p>
<p>Remarkable stuff, this historical proof.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a reason the Lord Jesus said &#8220;call no man on earth father,&#8221; and that includes &#8220;church fathers.&#8221; We know from the Bible that the 
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          <span class="MouseOverText" onmouseover="return overlib(MouseOverText10,CAPTION,MouseOverCaption10,CAPTIONFONTCLASS,'MouseOverCaption');" onmouseout="return nd();">mystery of inquity was already working</span>
           during the time of the apostle Paul&#8217;s ministry. No surprise Iraneous was infected with wrong ecclesiology.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll take the Scriptures.</span></p>
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